The Robotnik/Eggman topic

[White Wolf]

Hey,

I just had a thought to say about Eggman, especially since, as people said in the Drago topic, the Freedom Fighters, and all other Mobians are treating Eggman as Robotnik. I mean, the SAME Robotnik.

Why? I mean, sure Eggman probably did horrible things to his people in his zone, but WHY do the "prime" Freedom Fighters just treat Eggman as, and assume he is Robotnik Prime? I really think that this issue should stop, and I don't mean to stick up for Eggman, but the "prime" Freedom Fighers need to cut Eggman a break (as Sonic sort of did, when Eggman went insane) as far as all of the evil, Robotnik Prime had done. BLAME the Robotnik that acually DID the crime. Not Eggman. As people said, it was Robotnik that plotted Sally's demise, not Eggman. And this act of the Freedom Fighters acting like Robotnik "returned" even though it was actually "Robo-Robotnik" from another zone (who is now the flesh and blood Eggman we all know today) and they all need to stop acting like "their" Robotnik returned, when clearly, he did NOT. So the Freedom Fighters and ALL Mobians NEED to adjust to the fact that Eggman was NOT the culprate behind all of their plight. It was Robotnik Prime that did it. Why can't they just act like they should in the story and tell the truth that Eggman is not "their" robotnik, they are fighting?

Also, since Robotnik Prime is not dead, but supposedly trapped in another zone, why can't he just return and return Eggman to his proper zone? Although I would definatly miss Eggman if he went back to his zone, as I am sure many of you know that I am more of an Eggman fan than a Robotnik fan.

Finally, lets hope Eggman becomes sane again (if you can call Eggman's previous behavior as ruler of the Eggman Empire "sane") and becomes a huge threat to the Freedom Fighters and all of Mobius in general. As I said, I like the Iron Dominion Arc, but I still want to see Eggman as the big boss guy, again.

Like I said, I'm not saying that the Freedom Fighters need to be nice to Eggman, and they can still hate him as much as they hated Robotnik, but if they are going to blame someone for their plight, blame the RIGHT person. Robonik, not Eggman.

Just a little something that the Wuffster had to get off his chest.

#1 Fan of Drago

[BlazeyBakeneko]

Ian does this kinda weird thing where he treats Juilan(The original Robotnik) and Eggman as the same person by saying that they had the same past for most of their lives. It's a retcon of sorts...Since Robo-Robotnik's background was kind of murky(Mainly because it wasn't really clear if there was one or two of him), Ian went and filled it in with Julian's past.

Whether or not this was a good idea is up for debate. Ian believes that he simplified things, but it could be argued that he's made things even more confusing by fusing two characters into one after so many years of their being treated as separate.

[SynjoDeonecros]

I think a recent story with the Zone Cops had Sonic asking Zonic why he hadn't taken Eggman back to his own dimension, and Zonic said that Mobius Prime's survival relies on Sonic's fight with a Robotnik, and with his Robotnik gone, Eggman's the only one who can fill that place. And it's also hinted that this is true for all Mobius-like Zones. So, if that's true...then what about the Zone Eggman came from? It's lacking a Robotnik for its Sonic to fight, so shouldn't it be on the verge of destroying itself? And where the heck did this babble about the world's balance needing the fight between the Freedom Fighters and Robotnik to survive come up? Is it a cop-out that Ian used to justify keeping Eggman around?

And was it ever stated that the original Robotnik was still alive? I know Karl brought him back during the abysmal "Robotnik X2=Trouble" storyline, but if I remember that correctly, he was only brought back because Chaos Knuckles' unwitting warping of time and space allowed Eggman to coalesce Robotnik's scattered molecules with his machine, and the effect was only temporary, disintegrating Robotnik after a month. I don't recall them ever saying Robotnik was just transported to another dimension by the Ultimate Annihilator.

[Duuz-Diz-Din]

The explanation to your question goes like this:

1. Eggman already pretty much annihilated the world he came from so nobody can really talk about balance in a world that has gone to heck.

2. As for the explanation as to why Eggman wasn't arrested by the Zone Cops I think it was that since Robotnik's existence was ended instead of him actually being defeated Eggman was a prime candidate to fill the vacancy. Or some such garbage like that. The whole parallel Robotnik thing in general was rather confusing and pointless.

[White Wolf]

When Eggman first came over to Sonic's zone as "Robo-Robotnik" he stated to Sonic that "I destroyed my Sonic around the same time you destroyed your Robotnik, so I came over to your zone to fill the void in both of our lives" Something like that.

Also, I'm not sure about what exactly happened to Robotnik Prime, but on Ken's old boards, I recall someone saying that he was not dead, but trapped in some other zone, but how, I don't know.

[BlazeyBakeneko]

Also, I'm not sure about what exactly happened to Robotnik Prime, but on Ken's old boards, I recall someone saying that he was not dead, but trapped in some other zone, but how, I don't know.

Ian's treating him as dead, but it's probably possible that he's stuck in another dimension somewhere.

[SynjoDeonecros]

I never got the whole "He's Just Hiding" epileptic tree with Robotnik; it's clearly stated that the Ultimate Annihilator DESTROYS its targets, and nothing since then indicates that Robotnik was anything less than dead. And, again, going back to the suckitude that is issue #108, Eggman himself said that his machine combined with Knuckles' chaos powers allowed him to reconstitute the scattered ATOMS that made up Robotnik, meaning he was vaporized by his own machine. Seems pretty definitive, to me.

[BlazeyBakeneko]

I never got the whole "He's Just Hiding" epileptic tree with Robotnik; it's clearly stated that the Ultimate Annihilator DESTROYS its targets, and nothing since then indicates that Robotnik was anything less than dead. And, again, going back to the suckitude that is issue #108, Eggman himself said that his machine combined with Knuckles' chaos powers allowed him to reconstitute the scattered ATOMS that made up Robotnik, meaning he was vaporized by his own machine. Seems pretty definitive, to me.

Aaaaah, that's how it worked. A machine specifically made to kill rather than just disrupt reality in a vague way.

I guess that would mean that for Robotnik Prime to come back, it would take someone else with reality warping powers like Knux had.

...Come to think of it, Sonic seems to have those, now, at least if we believe Eggman.O_o

[SynjoDeonecros]

Yeah, it was designed to "erase matter", and could be programmed to focus on specific targets, so in essence Robotnik was vaporized. Then again, the issue that had him revived by Knuckles' powers and Eggman's machines was written by Karl Bollers, so take that as you will.

[BlazeyBakeneko]

Yeah, it was designed to "erase matter", and could be programmed to focus on specific targets, so in essence Robotnik was vaporized. Then again, the issue that had him revived by Knuckles' powers and Eggman's machines was written by Karl Bollers, so take that as you will.

If I recall correctly, Knuckles' powers were going haywire at the time, so, in a way, I'm kind of surprised that Robotnik's molecules were put back together successfully, rather than turning him into a giant talking pineapple or something.XD

[SynjoDeonecros]

Well, it was only a temporary revival, so yeah.

I always hated that storyline, and cite it as the worst story in the series' history; I mean, as much as I rag on Ian's work, most of it did start out good with some good potential to be seen, and the closest he ever came to the horridness of that story was his "XYL" arc. Seriously, two Robotniks, with a combined IQ of 600, one of whom has the ability to roboticize by touch, and the best plan they had was sending Old!Robotnik to play the injured patsy to get into the Freedom Fighters' good graces? And the FF actually GO ALONG WITH IT? Despite the massive obvious security breach issues? All just so they can locate and destroy the machine that brought him back? Just...guh?

[BlazeyBakeneko]

Well, it was only a temporary revival, so yeah.

I always hated that storyline, and cite it as the worst story in the series' history; I mean, as much as I rag on Ian's work, most of it did start out good with some good potential to be seen, and the closest he ever came to the horridness of that story was his "XYL" arc. Seriously, two Robotniks, with a combined IQ of 600, one of whom has the ability to roboticize by touch, and the best plan they had was sending Old!Robotnik to play the injured patsy to get into the Freedom Fighters' good graces? And the FF actually GO ALONG WITH IT? Despite the massive obvious security breach issues? All just so they can locate and destroy the machine that brought him back? Just...guh?

Yeah, I don't see why the two of them didn't just build some of kind of new doomsday weapon that would allow them to kill/enslave the Freedom Fighters once and for all. I mean, granted, they were trying to get rid of the FFs in that story, but in a ridiculous, over-complicated, Wile E. Coyote kind of way.

[SynjoDeonecros]

Or why Eggman didn't use his instant-roboticization touch to roboticize Robotnik. Seriously, I doubt Eggman would've been so short-sighted that he wouldn't have checked Robotnik to make sure that he wouldn't disintegrate after a month. And how in the heck did the Freedom Fighters know he would? All that they did was a standard medical checkup; that wouldn't have told them that his molecules were unstable, not unless they routinely do subatomic scans as part of their medical procedures. Heck, they don't even HAVE the kind of technology to detect quantum fluctuations in matter, at least not to my knowledge, so how COULD they know Robotnik's revival was only temporary? Wee! Plot holes!

[BlazeyBakeneko]

Or why Eggman didn't use his instant-roboticization touch to roboticize Robotnik. Seriously, I doubt Eggman would've been so short-sighted that he wouldn't have checked Robotnik to make sure that he wouldn't disintegrate after a month. And how in the heck did the Freedom Fighters know he would? All that they did was a standard medical checkup; that wouldn't have told them that his molecules were unstable, not unless they routinely do subatomic scans as part of their medical procedures. Heck, they don't even HAVE the kind of technology to detect quantum fluctuations in matter, at least not to my knowledge, so how COULD they know Robotnik's revival was only temporary? Wee! Plot holes!

Yeeeah, I don't see how Dr. Quack could have figured that out, either.^_^;; It's like "Open your mouth and say 'ah.' Oh, your molecules are unstable."

I always thought Karl wrote Roboticization in the strangest way, out of all the writers. Granted, it's never been fully explained as to how it works, but Karl kept making up crazy new rules, perhaps the strangest one being that if someone wanted to be roboticized by Eggman, they would keep their free will.

[SynjoDeonecros]

Speaking of, what was the deal with Eggman's insanity? Ignoring the fact that it was too similar to how Sonic the Comic did it to be coincidence, it was actually a pretty interesting idea and could've been a good story. Two points of contention, here, though:

1. When he went insane, it was in everyone's best interest to keep him locked up and insane; with Snivley, to prevent him from becoming subservient to Eggman again, and with the Freedom Fighters, so they won't have to deal with Eggman anymore, period. However, each time either of them interact with Crazy Eggy, they ALWAYS remind him of who and what he was, before he went insane, even AFTER his mind had regressed back to a point where he thought he was still a loyal scientist to the Acorn Monarchy. Why? If having him be that far gone meant you didn't have to deal with him, why keep reminding him of his real purpose in life, thus guaranteeing he'd snap out of it? Hell, with Eggman that far gone, it would've actually BENEFITED the Freedom Fighters to keep up that delusion, and eventually try to "convert" Eggman into an ally. Of course, we all know Ian's policies on rehabilitating villains, but c'mon, why even make him that insane, if both sides are going to actively goad him into regaining his sanity?

2. I've heard several rumors, during the saga, that Eggman was in fact faking his insanity. To what purpose, I don't know, nor do i know what the evidence is for it, but I'm going to guess the "randomly shouting his cell's override code during his rambling" shortly before he escaped would have something to do with that. I can tell you my theories on why he would want to fake his insanity; he found out about Snivley's treachery and alliance with the Iron Dominion, realized he couldn't fight both it and the Freedom Fighters at the same time, and decided to go "insane" to get him safely out of the picture and pit them against each other. That way, when they've worn each other out, he'd be in the perfect position to return and crush both of them. Even better, after he escaped and got put into FF custody; he'd be in enemy territory, ready to spring up and compromise their security and learn all of their secrets, after the fallout. Of course, Ian never thought of doing this, and instead went with the idea that Eggman really WAS insane, and rationalized his defeats with that stupid "Sonic is the living embodiment of Chaos" crap, but that just goes to show that the fans, right now, have a better handle on what would make the series good than Ian does.

[Mavrickindigo]

The freedom fighters hate Eggman just as much, because basically his reality was similar to Mobius Prime, aside from the Cyborg Sonic and roboticizing himself deal (minus Cyborg Sonic if you go the 2 Robo-Robotnik Route). And if you go the 1 Robo Robotnik Route, then Eggman has attacked the Prime Universe before and attempted to rule all of the multiverse with his Giant Borg, so there's gotta be some hate there.

Not only that, but Eggman could have deluded himself into thinking he's the "real" robotnik. I mean, think about it. Would the "real" Dr. Robotnik have gotten himself killed? No, the real Dr. Robotnik would have killed everyone else and went to conquer another world. Maybe he takes the glory of Robotnik Prime, because he had accomplished all he did, and more?